Selected Comments on
MY FAMILY TRADITIONS: The Sons of Joseph and the Diaspora
My comment: Sorry, but i'm not in the business or avocation of Irish history or genealogy. My primary interest in this essay is the use of myth for political purposes.
You may find a short exposition on my ancient Black Irish family entitled "The Sons of Joseph and the Diaspora" by searching under the name KULANU.
You and your colleagues have also obviously been doing a lot of research on the subject of the Black Irish for many years, and I would be very interested in following your research and learning whatever I can from your work.
c 1995 by Melvin J. Laney
extract: "Rabbi Avichail's book, The Tribes of Israel, refers to the Sons of
Joseph on page 43, and includes a source stating that the Yusuf-Sai
(Sons of Josef) are among the bravest of the Afriti families in
Afghanistan. ... My ancestors claimed to be descendants of the biblical Joseph who was sold into Egypt. ... According to my ancestors, for many generations a branch of the Sons of Joseph transported the King of Spain and his troops to Ire (Ireland). Eventually the King of Spain was defeated and an Irish chieftain married his daughter into the Sons of Joseph to keep the peace beyond the Slaney River in Southern Eire. In Gaelic the Sons of Joseph were called Dubslaines, "the dark-haired ones of Slaney." Their English surname was Laney." [the original link to Laney's Kulanu/Sons of Joseph site is http://www.ubalt.edu/www/kulanu/laney.html.]
Your work does a good job of summarizing 16th century attitudes, which
carry on til this day.
Come to think of it, if one does, why would England have spent so much
money defending an island with no resources, if it were not for protection
from Spain and later France.
I am on the board of the Irish Genealogical Society International based in
St. Paul and would like to place your essay in our historical link area if
you have no objections.
Thanks again for making the essay available to all.
There is at least two Manx stories connected with the Spanish Armada. One concerning the swarthy natives in the South of the Island (The Black Manx!)
The other story suggests that the Manx tailess cat could have originated from cats which came off the Spanish ships. The fact that there are stumpy tailed cats in Borneo and the Philippines gives this yarn some credence.
I can't quote you any references, but I'm sure the Manx Museum and National Trust in Douglas could assist you.
If you even have a clue as to the answer to my question, I'd greatly
appreciate it.
Thanks.
[p.s.] I forgot to say that I find your paper to be an excellent piece of
research. well-written and well-researched. It's relatively rare to find
something of such quality in cyberspace.
[p.p.s.] One question, though. Do you have any knowledge or suspicions concerning the place of origin for the red-haired green-eyed Irish phenotype?
Any thoughts on contemporary redactions of the Lebor Gabala?
I like your stuff, but can you send some info on who/what you are?
Another good way is to search for "tpkunesh" on a search engine such as AltaVista.
Plenty (maybe too much) info there.
Mary was sickly from birth. The intrigue surrounding her father's
attempts to divorce her mother added to her health problems. One must
also remember her "pregnacy" which lasted far longer than the usual nine
months due to the fact that it was a hysterical pregnacy.
Mary Tudor, "Bloody Mary", died a natural death, and I belive that she
was in her mid to late forties. A ripe old age in those times.
A few comments: firstly, my family tradition was that the Black Irish
were desccendants of Spanish who escaped during the Moorish invasions
of Europe. Second, I have read a number of older sourcebooks who
identify the Firbolgs as the Black Irish; the race prior to the Tuatha
de Dannan. They were supposed to have been swarthy types, and were
identified with Iberia (which supposedly had a linguistic link with the
word for the underworld, as opposed to the "sun people" - the Tuatha de
Dannan), and were supposed to have retreated to the present day areas of
"black irish" enclaves.
There's also a reference in Tacitus' "Germanica" to swarthy "Iberian"
welshmen.
I'll be digging into primary sources as soon as I get my library ID, if
you're interested in references.
My Great-grandmother (whose maiden name was Beamish) and of Irish descent
(probably County Cork) said the family were known as the "Black Beamishes"
and were Pirates of a kind. ...
Would you have any insights on the "Black Beamish" term? ...
I believe that line was Roman Catholic which may make the perjorative term
"Black" applied to Protestant collaborators with the English less likely.
I haven't done a lot of research on the
Black Dutch, mainly because I don't have any in my ancestry as far as I can
tell, but I'm a genealogical researcher and some of my clients have asked
about them. I understand that there is a Black Dutch Research Project
underway through Gelee Corley Hendrix, C.G., F.A.S.G. at 3 Acorn Court,
Greenville SC 29609-3111. I will get in touch with this person and see
what's been done, and I will keep you posted. One friend has Black Irish
in her background, but so far, she has batted zero in finding out anything
about them ... she was very happy to see your article. I will also get
in touch with M. J. Laney and see if he knows of any connections. The
Black Dutch also went up into Germany and Russia, and maybe some other
countries too, then emigrated to America in the 18th and 19th centuries.
Very interesting.
Send your comments to tpkunesh@darkfiber.com